Everything You Need to Know About the Goth Scene
Acker
2000
From Anonymous Submitter:
“The book, Everything You Need to Know About the Goth Scene, is obviously designed for scared parents who are concerned that their children might be “goth”, with helpful hints that their children might listen to a band called “The Cure“, they will wear black, they will be involved with Wicca (?!), and — according to the second photo — “Goths often sport unusual hair, makeup, and clothing, and are fascinated with mysterious and frightening things.“ I believe it’s supposed to gently calm overreacting parents down, but it really doesn’t offer much for actually parenting a kid who may or may not be gothy.”
Holly’s commentary:
I absolutely begged Mary to let me post this one. It’s not old. It’s not falling apart. It’s on a subject perfectly appropriate for public libraries (in most communities). An “awful” library book? No. There is definitely an audience for it.
Here’s the problem: all of the libraries in the online catalog I looked at have it cataloged as a young adult book. From the anonymous submitter’s description, it sounds like something parents would be more interested in than kids.
I got my hands on this book via ILL, though, and it does talk about the origins of Goth, as well as lifestyle, fashion, music, literature, and movies. I did not read this book cover-to-cover, so the submitter may be right about a parental audience vs. a teen audience. If that is the case, then this book is not to be weeded, necessarily, but moved from teen collections into parenting collections.
I didn’t perceive any bias on the part of the author on whether being Goth is good or bad. The author is careful to point out that “the media’s negative portrayal has caused much misunderstanding about what it means to be in the Goth scene.”
So, not a bad book over all. Just mis-cataloged, which makes it an ”awful library book” for that particular collection.
Holly
31 responses so far ↓
gothougeekly // July 12, 2009 at 12:07 am |
I did some quick searching, ending up on the Powell’s Books site (used to love shopping there …). These books are marketed as being YA. Powell’s shows a list of 149 titles (pretty steep cost, at $10 a used book, $24 for new) on some subjects teens really should know about. But since the books are pretty much about 64 pages including bibs, I’m not sure “everything you need to know” is the correct way to market it. Saw some ads targeting homeschoolers because the kids are supposed to read the book and take a test on it, but, without really getting into the whole series, I couldn’t say whether any part of it would be useful as more than the kind of book a parent would hand a kid so they won’t have to have a Talk. Without some really compelling stats to go with it, I’d weed it. I think it’s miscatalogued.
Kento // July 12, 2009 at 2:56 am |
I don’t know, goth seems kind of dated to me…
jamisings // July 26, 2009 at 12:23 pm |
I think the same thing. Actually I was at Disneyland during “Bat Day” (an unofficial day that goths come to Disneyland enmasse) and I SO wanted to go up to one and ask “You do realize the Twilight series has killed your lifestyle, right?”
Shannon // July 12, 2009 at 11:28 am |
I especially like that the Goth on the cover is smiling — perhaps she has entered “the pink of Goth,” as Sarah Vowell termed it!
Kate // July 12, 2009 at 12:29 pm |
This is a standard YA series done by Rosen or Greenhaven (YA imprint of Gale) I think- most libraries will put it into YA, and lots of them will have it on standing order, so they won’t really choose this title in particular. About the “don’t be afraid” tone: is it possible that this is really aimed at kids who would otherwise stigmatize Goth kids? This series is usually like that. It aims to keep kids from being nervous by providing EYNTK about “Living On Welfare” or “Teen Pregnancy.” It’s not really EYNTK if you want to BE Goth, but some of what you need to know to not freak out that your best friend is going to kill herself just because she’s wearing white makeup and has dyed her hair black. Often the pictures are stock, so they can be quite amusing – I remember one photo of two girls looking at a calculator where the caption read “Girls go through puberty at different rates and ages” or something like that. The authors probably write a few of these titles a year and so some of the research is good, some not so good. Still, I wouldn’t say to weed this one unless it’s too old, or to move it, just supplement with more realistic titles for kids who want to be Goth. Please excuse geeky former-YA librarian commentary.
Nicole // July 12, 2009 at 12:57 pm |
I see both sides of this one – how it could be YA and how it couldn’t be. Still… I wouldn’t classify it as YA. That’s just me.
PS: I put you guys in the WORD for Teens directory for other online book-related blogs and websites – there’s a link to the website through WORD. (http://wordforteens.blogspot.com) LOVE you guys.
Nicole // July 12, 2009 at 4:44 pm |
According to my 13 yr old, “Goth” is an outdated term. There is no such thing anymore. There are some kids who look a little goth-ish to me, but apparently they’re all into different stuff now.
Anita // July 12, 2009 at 7:07 pm |
There are still Goths (the scene is 30 years old — it’s not going away, it’s a subculture that is very much alive), but a lot of teens are Emo now. I’ve seen this book and agree with Kate: It’s definitely YA. Basic accurate info, but no depth. It’s not awful, just weak.
Matthew 2.0 // July 12, 2009 at 9:13 pm |
Yeah, goth is a little done now, although there are a few left here and there. Those that would have been goth are probably somewhat “emo” now: different music, different look, similar mental self-image and world-view.
What makes me laugh about this is the idea that EYNTK is a series targeted to young adults… Like that’s what it is their head when they go into the library: “I need to know everything there is about X. Where’s a good book on that?” If this is really a series trying to appeal to kids as a valuable reference on something in their world, I don’t think such a white, suburban, middle-aged phrase like “everything you need to know” will cut it. How about Goth on the Down Low? Or Goth Fo Shizzle? Ok, I think I’m a little too geeky to be even TYPING “fo shizzle,” yo? lol
I think they should just produce one-shot works instead of tried to ride the wave of “Idiots Guide” and the like.
hhibner // July 12, 2009 at 10:10 pm |
Oh, man – Matthew 2.0! I’m cracking up. I just have to share this YouTube link about the South Park Goth kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbDJqXCrFs
Or is he Emo?
Marie // July 13, 2009 at 12:32 am |
A mom’s point of view who owns a teenager: Emo is indeed in, but Goth, here in VA at least, is not out. I guess my teen’s high school is a bit of both, and then you have the “normal” kids Lol. (That’s a joke – please don’t take offence anyone!) This week, my daughter is Eno. Two weeks ago, she was Goth. She does NOT have any strange piercing, though she has a clip on ring she puts in her nose. (eww that annoy’s me!) I don’t think Goth is totally out and may even be equal with Emo right now, at least where I live. From all I have read here about the book, I agree that it would be more helpful for a parent. Kids already know how to be Goth. BTW, not many have anything to do with Wicca around here as they are in church with us, and when I just mentioned ‘The Cure’ to my daughter, she told me that no one she knows who is Goth listens to them, they are “gross”! From the “horse’s mouth” herself. Different strokes I guess. I hope that my daughter gives up the Goth. Emo is hard enough to deal with! For those who don’t know, Emo means overly emotional and dramtic. I haven’t seen that, but I have sen my daughter dress like a “normal” teenager again.
I have to ask – could someone please tell me what ILL and EYNTK mean?
OH and my 25 year old son’s favorite expression is “fo shizzle” so I guess some former teenagers never fully lose the lingo. lol
marykelly48 // July 13, 2009 at 7:41 am |
Marie:
ILL is shorthand for Inter Library Loan (which is when libraries borrow from other libraries) EYNTK = Everything You Need To Know which is a title of a series of books.
Connie H. // July 13, 2009 at 8:36 am |
Another book that could be miscategorized is Jillian Venter’s GOTHIC CHARM SCHOOL which is a Miss-Mannersly witty and profound advice book about etiquette, Gothly and otherwise. Just the thing to hand to parents or anyone, really.
Justin // July 13, 2009 at 9:08 am |
I’m so goth, I sacked Rome.
Historygirl // November 8, 2009 at 11:43 pm |
LMAO! My entire university education just came into use. Thank you for that comment. Incidentally goth is not out it seems, not among teenagers, but also, not among the people who “pioneered” the culture 30 years ago. They tend to exist and run really fun clubs from my experiences.
Deborah // July 13, 2009 at 12:47 pm |
Someone has already mentioned that this book is part of a series called “The Need to Know Library.” It is written and marketed for a teen market. There are a number of information series marketed to teens nowadays, many of them focusing on life skills, controversial issues, and social concerns. Some series tend to take on a more conservative viewpoint than others, and do tend to demonize some topics more than others. We don’t “weed” items because they don’t say what we think they should, we weed items that actually misinform, are outdated, and/or don’t circ. So, if the book meets the collection criteria and is still circulating, it should stay. If if does and is not, it should go. Not too much need for debate, in my opinion.
Azrael Brown // July 13, 2009 at 1:23 pm |
The anonymous submitter here: I want to point out that I did find this in the adult shelves, with a Dewey Decimal in the 300s, which is why I assumed it was for parents; I can see the appeal to youth, if to dispel myths in a gentle way. What I found so awful about it is, as someone mentioned, the incongruity of an “everything you need to know” book being a couple dozen pages long of full-page photos and one or two generic sentences – it really doesn’t explain much more than some two-page spread in Seventeen magazine.
DJ Consumptiva // July 13, 2009 at 3:53 pm |
After reading the comments, I believe this book is appropriately placed in the YA category. Sure, it’s shallow and cursory; but as many have pointed out, there are not too many real goth kids out there, so there almost seems no need to be concerned about the book’s lack of substance. Frankly, the goth subculture is not really available to many people until they are adults. Clubs are age-limited, festivals require money and means of transportation, and teens are, subsequently, rarely fortunate enough to have access to a subculture which is actually still going strong, even amongst the near-middle-aged set.
As for books that address the sociological and cultural aspects of gothdom, I recommend GOTH: UNDEAD SUBCULTURE by Lauren M.E. Goodlad and Michael Bibby, and Jillian Venter’s GOTHIC CHARM SCHOOL, respectively. The “Need to Know Book” seems harmless, at least, which may be reason enough to leave it alone.
Skye // July 14, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
As a Wiccan myself (well, really more of a pagan, but anyway), it really frustrates me when people assume that a “goth” will almost always be involved in “Wicca”.
We have enough trouble with goths who claim the “wiccan” tag in order to irritate their parents–we don’t need non-fiction books claiming it’s an essential part of the goth scene.
Now, of course I haven’t actually read the book in question. This is just a sore spot of mine.
Matthew // July 14, 2009 at 10:07 pm |
You’re right Deborah… “We don’t ‘weed’ items because they don’t say what we think they should, we weed items that actually misinform, are outdated, and/or don’t circ.” But there must be some other criteria. We don’t have the space, money or the time to buy all non-misinforming new books and wait to see if they will circulate. There must be a criteria of utility. And that’s the issue with this title: is this really a useful book? If it’s flying off the shelf, by all means keep it. But if circulation is just so-so then chuck it. Along with any other similarly qualified (or unqualified) work.
It should be (but unfortunately sometimes is) a case of not appreciating the topic. We need to be open minded about the content we are collection and providing access to but the utility of such content must be considered.
Andrew // July 15, 2009 at 11:11 pm |
I just love the typo from Marie, the mother: “This week, my daughter is Eno”. Just goes to show the thickness of popular culture! Okay, maybe not everyone knows who Brian Eno is. I remember researching a paper on Punk Rock for my high school English class in maybe 1983 at my Public library. I found mimeographs of Time and Newsweek from 1977 with quickie blurbs of what’s happening in London. Not much else was available. Later, at University we read a book on Subculture by Dick Hebdige but our gigantic research library didn’t have much else- it didn’t need to! We who hung out at the radio station knew where to go for our research material.
It seems that many of the items up on the chopping block here at this wonderful blog are books about emerging culture. What a difficult thing to present in a manner sufficiently ideologically correct enough to enter into an official collection. That threshold alone almost ensures that the material will soon be dated, whereas now with the internet, and with what I see as an explosion in, for lack of a coherent term, ‘rock’ journalism and sub-culture/niche publishing, there is so much material to read on virtually any pop-culture topic. Certainly, computers belong in every library. But what, I am asking, should represent popular and niche culture in the collections of publicly funded free libraries? In Peoria and Manhattan alike?
With unlimited funding and space perhaps all source materials and secondary alike. But we don’t live in this world. Indeed, this blog focuses on the need to weed. What could possibly be ‘accurate’ information about those who seek to riddle the public at large, other than their own source materials, i.e. I am sure many public libraries loan Cure cds.
With the Pirate Party on the rise (challenging copyright concepts and promoting unfettered access to intellectually protected items on the web), and google and others goals of copying any book they are able to into the web, perhaps library space in the future will be less about stacks and more about screens.
Library cards no doubt will be terabyte hard-drives,
hhibner // July 16, 2009 at 2:58 pm |
This is still one of my favorite posts. Thanks, anonymous submitter! These great discussions are half the fun. I have used this title as an example to many interviewers lately.
Sylvia // July 20, 2009 at 7:06 am |
Er, I listened to the Cure as a teenager and I’m 40 now. I really don’t think anyone dressing Goth in 2000 would still have listened to them, let alone in 2009!
Anita // July 21, 2009 at 9:25 pm |
Er, you’re wrong.
And The Cure just came out with a new CD a few months ago.
Living // July 21, 2009 at 11:09 pm |
We had one Goth girl in our school (graduated in 2002). One.
jenspeak // July 22, 2009 at 12:34 pm |
Aimed at Marie: Be a goth and NOT listen to The Cure?!?!? Blasphamey!!!!! Robert Smith (lead singer) would be rolling in his gothy grave if he were dead… but he’s not… dead that is. He’s still making awesome music (ok “awesome” is debatable… still really good, but classic Cure is the best). He’s one of the people who made goth what it is today… hhhh…. when will teens learn to respect thier elders? Hahaha.
Bobbi // July 29, 2009 at 7:35 pm |
Being a goth myself, I feel the need to say that goth is not “out”, most goths just aren’t in high school anymore. And “goth” is such a loose term that there’s no way it could really be covered in such a small book.
Not having read the book I cannot comment on whether or not it is accurate or appropriate, but my inclination is that most teens will ignore it and it. As for parents, I doubt a book like that will reassure them that their goth child is “fine”. No book would have comforted my mother once my goth nature began to surface. It’s just taken ten years for her to realize that just because I wear black and read Poe, it doesn’t mean that I sacrifece small children in the basement.
Also, I do find the line quoted from the book to be mildly offensive. I am not “facinated by mysterious or frightening things”, I just look at the world differently from most people.
Cyborgeisha // August 1, 2009 at 8:44 pm |
Ok for moms that are worried about their teenage son or daughter don’t there’s nothing wrong with them really we’re just trying to break the mainstream media. Don’t listen to what it’s told you. Being “goth” isn’t bad it’s just not what people are used to.
Sara // August 4, 2009 at 4:03 am |
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Sara
http://pianotutorial.net
christina // August 6, 2009 at 3:23 pm |
I just found your site and I love it! I felt that as a former-ish goth (I’m now in my 30’s and have more than black in my wardrobe) I find this book and some of the comments hysterical. Yes, I listen to the Cure and found the kid’s remark about them being “gross” to be the cutest thing I have ever read. I’ve heard the stuff the kiddos like today…gross
Alison // August 12, 2009 at 4:06 am |
A better book for learning about the goth scene and putting parents of goth teens at ease would be Gothic Charm School by Jillian Venters.
http://www.amazon.com/Gothic-Charm-School-Essential-Guide/dp/0061669164/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250064312&sr=1-1